Russ White 0:00
Well, it's a pleasure to welcome Devin Ackman to MSU. Today Devin is the brand new director of the MSU museum and not for too long has also been director of science gallery, Detroit, Devin, welcome, hey, it's great to be here. So it's kind of fun. You've come full circle as an MSU. student, you did some time working at the MSU. museum, now you're directing it sort of just described your career path in between and how cool it is to kind of come full circle like that. Yeah, it's

Unknown Speaker 0:28
great to be back. It's been, it's been a while over about 20 years. And I did work here at the MSU museum as an undergrad, I did what I like to affectionately refer to as gruntwork, painting a lot of walls and helping with a lot of exhibitions, putting the vinyl on the walls. I was an art history student at the time, and that Museum Studies student and, you know, it's interesting to look back, I really think those were the first steps that actually launched my career, it exposed me to museums in a new way. And I got some theoretical training with some practical hands on experience. And when I left MSU, I ended up going to grad school and studying something completely different. And as luck would have it, instead of actually going into that field, I ended up in a museum, right as I finished my graduate studies and, and then began that journey. And it's brought me back here almost 20 years later. So I, I would have never imagined I'd be back here at MSU working for the museum, but it's a bit of a homecoming. It's great to be back.

Russ White 1:21
And before we talk a little bit more about the museum tell us what science gallery Detroit is and what first attracted you there.

Unknown Speaker 1:28
You know, science gallery is just one of the things that's really hard to describe. I like to think of it as more of an idea. So science gallery actually began at Trinity College in Dublin back around 2008. And the whole idea was how do you create a future focused cultural institution that in a lot of ways disrupts the traditional ways that museums work? So science gallery, in theory was meant to be this transdisciplinary space that is looking at the most important issues of our time, it wasn't interested in being a traditional science gallery, or a science museum or an art museum, it was like, how do you bring all these things together science, technology, art design, and really find a place for young people. And by young people, I mean, 15 to 25, that's really the core demographic, and to give them agency to be able to explore these issues and make sense of them and think about the world. Well, it was so successful at Dublin, it began to grow as a network around the around the world. And we here at MSU began the first science gallery in the United States science gallery, Detroit, there are nine partners now throughout the world and each operate a little bit differently. That's why I call it an idea, you know, so we all have this kind of similar ethos of thinking really about future focus and, and contemporary issues and young people and transdisciplinary approach. But we all do that in our own way. So that that whole model was really appealing to me, I was working in consulting and was very happy and consulting, working with all kinds of organizations throughout the world. And this opportunity came up I thought, my goodness, you know, I'm a native Detroiter, I'm an MSU. grad. So you know, and this idea of how do we disrupt the traditional museum and cultural experience was just so appealing. So that was kind of the red meat that drew me to this project.

Russ White 3:17
And so why did you want to add the MSU museum to your responsibilities?

Unknown Speaker 3:22
Yeah, the timing is all just really, I mean, we're operating here in the middle of this ongoing pandemic. So I started on April one, April Fool's Day surprise, with science gallery in 2020. And we managed to operate fairly successfully as a pop up even through the pandemic. And, you know, as we began to get closer to the turn of 2021, it became apparent we needed to do more work. on campus, we were doing a lot of work at a distance, and a lot of the MSU community didn't know a lot about us. So the Provost said, Why don't you bring the project to closer to campus and maybe think about partnering with the MSU museum next fall when you do your exhibition. So that was kind of the the, the the seed, we began to plan an exhibition in the museum. But it wasn't really a concept of becoming part of the museum, organizationally, and as time kind of carry on. And we began to hear kind of the the ultimate goals that the university wanted for this museum and the work we were doing, we thought, Oh, my goodness, this is actually a really interesting opportunity to embed this, this kind of model that was meant to be somewhat of a disrupter into a traditional Museum, a very successful Historical Museum and think about what could the future of the MSU museum B. And that just kind of spiral them and lead us to where we are today. And you know, over the summer, I had the good fortune of having this opportunity presented to me and I said, my goodness, I can't imagine a better, a better role for me right now. And that's, that's where we are.

Russ White 4:47
So Devin, tell me a little bit about some of your short and long term goals for the museum.

Unknown Speaker 4:53
Yes, yes. Well, the very first thing we're going to do is we're going to put our heads down and actually put together a strong strategic plan. And think about, you know, in that planning process, what are the types of resources we need? What is our programming look like over the next five years, in general, and especially coming out of consulting I, I've learned that one of the number one barriers that prohibit organizations from truly flourishing in the arts sector is not planning out far enough, you don't have enough time to think creatively to fundraise to market and to educate your audiences. So we're going to, we're going to put our heads down and really build a strong roadmap. And in that process, we'll really understand and figure out what we're going to do. But I think there are some overarching things we can already assume. One of the things we realizes we've got, we've got this beautiful building, it's an old building. It's geographically in the heart of the campus. But it's also limited. So we already know that we're going to have to find a way of doing a little bit what I call the push pull model, we want to pull people into the museum, but we're also going to have to push activities out into the campus community. So even this fall, we're already thinking about that with the first exhibition we're going to open when the museum reopens in September, we have some exhibits that will probably probably be embedded in the STEM building. We're partnering with the East Lansing Arts Council to do some up and down Grand River. And we're putting all the programming out over campus, the workshops, the performances, and none of that is actually happening in the museum. So really thinking broadly about how do you embed things across the campus community, we know we're competing for time and attention, we have to meet people where they are, we have to be relevant. We have to be creative and innovative in that programming. So that's, that's really top of mind. thinking critically about the partnerships we have and student success and academic success and how we support that. Ultimately, we are a r1 research universities museum. So we want to be fertile ground for that kind of thinking and activity and, and just really being truly relevant in the life of students. I mean, nothing would please me more than just even seeing students studying in this building. I mean, people think you have to go to a museum and just see exhibitions. But I like to think of this as a third space on campus where people can just come sit, relax, and we all had those experiences as when we were undergrads right? There were different places around campus that we went to. So it's my heart's desire that museum will be that for for our undergrads today.

Russ White 7:15
Is there potential for some collaborations with other arts oriented places on campus, like the broad museum or things at Wharton center? I would imagine, collaboration would be on your mind.

Unknown Speaker 7:26
Well, abberation is top of mind. And I have to say, I feel so fortunate that I have such great peers that I've already met across campus. I mean, my colleague, Monica at the broad Art Museum is just absolutely phenomenal. And our and our friends over at the residential college on ARCA, our friends over at the Museum Studies program and what I mean, everybody is really keen to collaborate. And I think there's a shared focus on impact on the community. And we all know that we can go farther together than alone. So we're already in so many ways coming to the table and thinking together. In fact, the MSU Museum, the broad Art Museum, and Wk are going to program at an event shortly after we open and that just kind of materialized over the course of a week, people are saying, hey, we've got this idea, you want to be part of it. So I think you'll see a lot of that at the MSU museum coming forward.

Russ White 8:12
And Devin, we talked about some of your goals. So the museum, what are some challenges to reaching those goals and both some opportunities inherent to?

Unknown Speaker 8:21
Well, there's all kinds of challenges. I mean, we know that our campus community is busy, and they have a lot of things, we're competing for time and attention. And we need to be relevant. And that's always a challenge, right? We're in a very loud and noisy world with so many activities happening. We're very pragmatic about the institution, we're in the physical building, as I mentioned, it's it's very old. It has some really wonderful assets to it. But it also has some challenges. I mean, we don't have a lot of gallery space, we don't have a lot of workshop space. Part of the reason that we don't do programming here is we don't have a lot of programming space. So there are there are certainly plenty of challenges for not just our museum, but I think museums in general, especially as we kind of navigate COVID design going COVID the whole industry seems to be to an extent disrupted the traditional business model. So figuring even that out is really hard. But I always like to look for the silver linings. I have kind of an entrepreneurial mindset. So I like these challenges. And it enables us to think bold and creatively about what a new future can be and how a museum like this conservative community for that next chapter, and we're just going to tackle each its challenge in that manner going forward.

Russ White 9:36
Well, you led me right into my next question, Devin. I mean, you've spent the better part of your career in arts and museum and culture what what are some of the challenges and opportunities for museums in general sort of arts and culture in general?

Unknown Speaker 9:50
Yeah, well, one of the big things right now are for museums, for example, it's it's a really, as I keep alluding to a very competitive landscape out there we see attendance decline. National museums, which is interesting, because museums remain among the absolute most trusted institutions in our country. You know, there's a lot of things that people are pessimistic about. But museums and cultural centers seem to be still rated as trusted institutions. So we face these weird challenges where they're, they're trusted and celebrated. But attendance is declining. And I think that goes back to this idea of, you know, how do we compete for time and attention? How do we make sure we're relevant? How are we responding to the needs of the communities we seek to serve? And that has to be top of mind? We also really have to think about experience design. I mean, we're living more and more and more, and this what they keep referring to is the experience economy. And that's really critical. I mean, what does it mean to come and visit the museum? What does the experience feel like from the minute you walk into the door to the minute you leave, so thinking really critically about that? Now, I keep joking about what's happening in Detroit, I have a lot of really great friends over at the Detroit Institute of Arts, they do wonderful work there. And they've got this wonderful Van Gogh exhibition coming up. But I also noticed that there's two immersive lango experiences coming before that I keep thinking, these are the challenges museums are facing, we have for profit institutions and non traditional cultural institutions now producing similar things that are all about the experience. And we're competing for those same viewers those same audiences. And that's a true challenge for the field.

Russ White 11:24
Let me take you back Devin to when you were coming out of high school, why was MSU the place for you?

Unknown Speaker 11:31
You know, one of the things about MSU. For me at the time was I you know, I grew up in Metro Detroit, but my, my dad worked for the government and he got transferred up to Flint, and we live in a small town. And one of the things right away that I fell in love with at Michigan State was first the beauty of the campus, I came out here in the summer. And as we all know, summer on MSU campus is, you know, it's a postcard. So that kind of coupled with the sheer size of it, you know, some people get intimidated by it large schools. For me, it just felt so wonderful to be around so many like minded, similar aged people. And so that's what kind of brought me here, and then just this day, you know, I look back and think about, you know, my best friends to this day still came here, the things that define me, I met my wife here, as an undergrad, I mean, so many of those things. So I feel really lucky that I chose MSU. And I, you know, I often think I just don't, you know, I don't feel like it was as competitive as when I was going. And as applying to college like it is today, you know, I felt a little bit more free to choose a university that that really fit fit me, as opposed to all the competitive nature of it. So I just feel really blessed in that regard. And MSU was incredible, incredibly good experience for me.

Russ White 12:49
And tell me more about how the experience at MSU shaped you and continues to.

Unknown Speaker 12:55
Yeah, well, I got you know, even as an undergrad, I really began to blend some of my interests, which was the city of Detroit, I was doing a lot of photography and photography work as at the time, I was also studying studio art. And I was going back and forth between Detroit and East Lansing. And I think that exposure was really critical in my development, I began much more to explore my identity. I'm a third generation Lebanese American, which opened up all kinds of doors for my professional work in museums later in life, the rich array of experiences I had, so not only did I work at the MSU Museum, but I worked for the state news. And that opened the door actually pursued a journalism career for a while went on to Grand Rapids press in the second on us before I figured out you know, this isn't really, for me. And that's when I came back to MSU for a second when I joke is the second tour of duty. So it was just like, you know, the experiences and then working in the library. I mean, just there are so many amazing assets here. And I feel like if you truly embraces and you explore these opportunities that that we have before us, all kinds of doors open. I mean, we grow as individuals, and we began to see the opportunities out there in the world. And I just kind of followed my heart with that. And which is really interesting, why the science gallery aspect of our work is still so critical. I mean, that's really that speaks to me, I keep thinking about, you know, how important it is for that age group and those experiences as undergrads and to think that we can have a role in shaping that in the same way the university helped shape my life. I there's there's a there's an amazing power in that. And I hope we can pay that forward.

Russ White 14:34
Well, Devin, it's been great to get to know you a little bit. And as we close, just sort of summarize what you'd like those joining in on our conversation to know about you and sort of where you want to take the MSU museum.

Unknown Speaker 14:46
Well, I think people should expect new ideas and new things coming out of the MSU museum things they haven't experienced before in the past. Just this fall, we're going to open a whole new exhibition that explores surveillance in the way it permits. It's all aspects of our lives. It's going to be a very tech heavy show and probably a little bit unsettling because these are things that we we tend to push out of our mind. Right. So I think you're going to see new things in the space programmatically with the exhibitions, and certainly the way we engage faculty and students to provide richer experiences for them. So stay tuned. I think you'll see a lot of interesting stuff coming out here.

Russ White 15:21
That's Devin Hackman, the director of the MSU Museum, Devin, great talking with you. Likewise, thanks for having me. And I'm Russ white. This is MSU today

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