MSU releases strategic plan to address sexual assault prevention
Download MP3After several years of research and analysis, Michigan State University has released an institution-wide strategic plan to address sexual assault, sexual harassment, relationship violence, and stalking issues that collectively will help foster a safer campus community.
The Relationship Violence and Sexual Misconduct (RVSM) strategic plan builds on the work of the RVSM Expert Advisory Workgroup, which has been a major driver of RVSM efforts on campus and was tasked with creating a values-driven operational plan with recommended initiatives, timelines and metrics.
The Workgroup — co-chaired by Dr. Rebecca Campbell, professor of psychology and Lt. Andrea Munford, coordinator of the Center for Trauma-Informed Investigative Excellence at the MSU Police Department — was formed in 2018 to make immediate recommendations to transform MSU’s institutional response to RVSM and oversee the implementation of those changes in the wake of the Larry Nassar crisis. Members of the workgroup were appointed by the president based on their expertise in RVSM services, prevention, policy and/or research.
“What we've learned through conversations through the Nassar case and through other cases and conversations with survivors and with other community stakeholders is that people didn't report what was going on because we as a university didn't give them a safe place to report,” says Munford. “There was a lot of judgment and inaction in reporting. And that became more known that there was a pattern there. And so people stopped reporting because they didn't feel like it was safe to do so.”
“I also heard people didn't know where to go,” adds Campbell. “They didn't know what services we had, and they didn't know how to access them. We've had longstanding victim service programs, both in sexual assault and in relationship violence and stalking for decades, actually very strong programs, good trauma-informed services, and people didn't know that they were there. We knew that we needed to be doing more to create clear, accessible pathways to the services that we have and to strengthen those services. There was still more we needed to do in those services. Both in terms of improving options for reporting and in terms of getting support in healthcare, we needed to start over and we needed to really think through how to make accessible pathways for victims.
“We did a lot of listening. We have been in campus engagement sessions since spring of 2018. We've had an online portal forum where people could send in their suggestions, their comments, their concerns, their anger, and their fears. We read all of those. We did a crosswalk between our current programming and national recommended best practices to identify all of the gaps. And then we spent months looking at model programs, looking at what we had, and applying for grants. We have a number of initiatives in this plan that are funded in collaboration with the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, the Division of Victim Services, to create new programs. It was a combination of a lot of feedback, bringing some outside perspectives into the university through those funders and through consulting with national organizations to identify what would be model practices and to build out a plan around those.”
Campbell and Munford define relationship violence and sexual misconduct, and Munford defines trauma-informed.
“Being trauma-informed is really understanding what neurobiology of trauma looks like,” says Munford. “It's understanding that your body reacts in ways during trauma that somebody else may not recognize if they don't understand what that means. It's working with somebody who is in trauma and being able to support them through it because they may not know why their body and their mind is reacting a certain way and being able to guide them through that process by providing supportive measures along the way, too. Working with a survivor of sexual assault while they're in that trauma and what they're telling you about what happened may not make sense because their mind really in the midst of that trauma isn't processing it sequentially or their memories are very fragmented. And so, they're not able to say, ‘This is how it started. And this happened.’ That's not really how most people's minds work during trauma.
“So, guiding them through that process and saying, ‘I understand that you won't be able to tell me what happened from the beginning to the end manner. And that's okay. Tell me what you remember, and we can start from there.’ We've all in the past just made assumptions when someone comes forward to report something. And if it doesn't sound like an accurate story and because maybe we didn't know what trauma can do to people, we just assume they were lying. Understanding how trauma affects somebody helps us do a better investigation and helps us support a survivor better. And regardless of what process someone chooses, the outcome is better because we've supported them along the way.”
“One of the things we've been focusing on in the strategic plan is to look at all of the different stakeholder groups on campus like the survivors, the helpers, the leaders, the campus community, and our service providers to ask what training they have received,” adds Campbell. “Do they have training that's consistent with empirical research? Do they understand the impact of trauma? And are we preparing them to receive disclosures and to know how trauma affects people and to be able to respond in an empathic way and to connect people to support services? A lot of the initiatives in our strategic plan focus on training of the campus community in small groups and large groups and our leadership to know those basics of what trauma is, how trauma affects people, and what their role is in being part of a trauma-informed community.”
Campbell and Munford describe the values-driven and principles-focused approach to developing the plan and discuss how the plan needs to be intersectional.
“Violence is experienced differently in different communities, and certain communities have higher rates,” continues Campbell. “Depending on people's intersectional identities, they're going to need and want different resources. And different resources are going to feel more or less supportive or safe for them. It's not a one-size-fits-all, and we really need to be having multiple options for people depending upon what is safe and supportive for them.
“We also wanted to focus on the fact that all of our actions need to be trauma-informed, that we need to build on the work that Andrea has done in creating trauma-informed investigations to really think about how we do trauma-informed services all throughout the university. So that no matter where a survivor reaches out and to whom they may disclose, that that person has a fundamental understanding of trauma and can respond supportively and connect people to services.”
Specific initiatives of the plan?
“Our data from the Know More survey told us that the number experiencing RVSM was a much larger number than the people who were seeking help,” adds Campbell.
“Seeking help could include reporting to the police or Title IX, but it also means reaching out to victim service programs or employee assistance. And we just weren't having very many people come forward to seek help. We need to increase help seeking, and we need to make clear, accessible paths for people to receive help and support. And we simply need to reduce the number of people experiencing this. We need a real strong focus on prevention to reduce the incidents of RVSM.
“In terms of increasing help seeking, research is very clear, we need three critical things. Number one, we need trauma-informed services and clear, accessible ways to get to those services. Second, we need a trauma-informed culture. People need to feel safe to disclose, and the people in that community, particularly the leaders, need to know how to respond in a trauma-informed empathic way. And third, we have to change the way we handle RVSM sanctions and discipline. People will not report and they will not seek help if they don't believe that the institution will take it seriously. The office of the provost is initiating sweeping changes in how they approach sanctions and discipline process.
“On the side of preventing RVSM from ever happening in the first place, again, research gives us three very clear directions. Number one, we need to look at what resources and education and intervention we're providing for those who have been found responsible. Because without education and intervention, research is pretty clear they may commit those acts again. So that is often referred to as secondary prevention. For those who've already done it, what do we do to educate and intervene to make sure they don't do it again? The second key thing that research tells us we need to do is focus on the primary prevention, so it ever happening in the first place. And there what we really want to be focusing on is developing skills that all members of the community need to recognize that this is a situation that could result in relationship violence, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, or workplace incivility, and that they have the skills to intervene.
“It's often called bystander intervention, meaning a person understands and recognizes what the dynamics are and that they have the skills and feel empowered to intervene, that they don't just sit back, that they don't just sit silently and go, ‘Oh, well. There goes so and so again being the way they are in a faculty meeting. And there they are again, treating staff that way,’ to say, ‘No, that's not okay.’ And that they have the skills and the confidence to intervene to say, ‘No, that's not going to happen. I'm concerned about your behavior. We need to redirect that.’ We need to teach people those skills. And third, we need to create respectful work environments. And we have a lot of sub-initiatives, a lot of specific projects that are really focusing on creating a respectful work environment because what that does is it sets what the behavioral expectations are. What are our norms? What do we expect all students, faculty, and staff to do in being a member of this community?”
“There's an ongoing training for leadership called, Creating and Sustaining a Respectful Work Environment,” adds Munford. “It focuses on what leaders can do in regards to early intervention and addressing behavior in the right way. And depending on the severity of it, what needs to happen from there, from creating an environment and not just creating it upfront, but sustaining it. So there's ongoing work that needs to happen, communication with folks in a unit to make sure that everyone understands that there are certain behaviors that won't be tolerated, and if that behavior does occur, following up appropriately. We must teach our leaders what the process looks like and what their part in it is. And again, giving them the tools to be able to run a unit and sustain it so that there's a culture and foundation of respect.”
What about a timeline for and evaluation of progress?
“One of the things that was really important to us in this strategic plan was developing a robust evaluation of it,” says Campbell. “Putting out a bunch of initiatives doesn't really do much if you don't evaluate them and know whether they're working. We already did one climate survey in 2019. And as part of that, we collected really rigorous baseline data in terms of the incidents of RVSM, how many people are experiencing it, what the help seeking was, where people are reporting to, and measures of climate, how are they feeling about the leadership of the university, our culture around RVSM. That provides us baseline data that then we can return to in the spring of 2022 and in the spring of 2024 to see if we're seeing demonstrable change. What we're hoping for is that the rates of help seeking - again that can include reporting, but it doesn't necessarily mean formal reporting to Title IX or the police – continue to go up; we're hoping for statistically significant improvements in those.
“We're also hoping to see that our primary prevention programs are working and that the overall incidents of relationship violence, sexual misconduct, and workplace incivility are decreasing. And we're hoping to see changes in those climate measures and that people feel that this is a serious issue of RVSM, that our leadership are invested, and that we are making significant progress in transforming the culture of that. All of those data are publicly available through the office of civil rights website. And all future evaluation data will also be public. Accountability is important; transparency is important. We need to be putting those data out for public engagement, which we have, and will continue to do so. And if we find that those metrics are not changing, it's our responsibility to dig into that to understand why. Is there a problem in our programming? Where is it missing the mark? What do we need to be doing better? How can we improve this? It's a living, breathing plan of continuous improvement and change over time.”
Campbell and Munford feel good about doing this important work.
“I'm often asked, ‘Isn't this hard, isn't this depressing?’ Certainly, there are days when it is, but by and large it's not,” Campbell says. “I love this job. I love this role because every single day, I get to meet people at MSU who are committed to this issue and want to be part of the solution. I meet people from literally all different parts of this university in all different roles who ask me about this work and who want to know how they can help. I meet deans who are committed to this work, and I meet student activists. The number of people we get to interact with here at MSU who are really committed to this work is inspiring.”
“And working with survivors of relationship violence and sexual misconduct, whether it's sexual assault or sexual harassment, and being able to make a process for them better is rewarding because they already went through a horrible traumatic event,” Munford adds. “And sometimes the processes themselves, if not done correctly, are just another traumatic event. Going through the Nassar investigation, the criminal investigation, the university investigation, I watched the layers of trauma over and over again. The failures that these survivors experienced on so many different levels are not okay, and it needs to be addressed. It can't just be, ‘Let's fix it right now for compliance to say we did;’ it has to be ongoing, and it has to be re-evaluated.
“We have to learn as we go and keep improving systems so that people have a safe place to go to report. Again, it doesn't mean reporting to police or Title IX all of the time. It can, but it means having places in the university where people are comfortable talking about their experience so that they can get support. And again, there are so many different facets to that that we have to be able to look at this comprehensively to make sure that we're covering all of these areas and building a much-improved system than what we've been working with. And for me, like Becki said, there are days you feel like you're just spinning your wheels. And then there's a breakthrough. This is my calling. This is why I'm doing the work I'm doing because people deserve better.”
It's rewarding for Campbell and Munford to have support right from the very top in President Stanley.
“President Stanley's commitment to this has been very clear from day one,” says Campbell. “Back in the days when we actually got to work in our offices at MSU, our offices are literally next door to his. We've had the opportunity to have those hallway chats with him. He asks how we're doing. He sees us heading out to different campus meetings. We see him later on and he asks, 'How did it go?’ When he came to MSU, in addition to the required training that all students, faculty and staff participate in, he asked for additional training on trauma and the impact of trauma. He is genuinely very curious and wants to know the current research on this to add that into his own knowledge as a physician.”
“He sincerely cares about the community and really wants to improve culture in many different areas,” Munford adds. “He has been very committed to the RVSM initiatives and very supportive of Becki and me and the work that we do.”
What are a couple of key takeaways you'd each like people to take from the plan?
“For our community, no matter what your role is, when you know better, you're able to do better, but you have to make the choice to do so,” Munford says. “As this plan is rolling out, be engaged, pay attention, and make a choice to do better because there's a lot of information that helps you know better.”
“We can change the culture at MSU,” Campbell adds. “It's not going to be easy, and it's not going to be quick. For it to be real, it has to be meaningful, and it has to take time. And it has to take all parts of the university. It has to take our leaders, it has to take our faculty, our deans, our staff, and our students. It has to take everybody. The plan outlines many concrete behavioral things that we can and must do to decrease the prevalence of relationship violence and sexual misconduct and to make it easier for survivors to seek help and support.
“I encourage people to read the report. It presents the underlying philosophy and the values and the principles that inform this work. It describes the process of how we did this and all of the different data sources. And it lays out all of the different initiatives.”
MSU Today airs Sunday mornings at 9:00 on 105.1 FM and AM 870 and streams at wkar.org. Find “MSU Today with Russ White” at Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.
The Workgroup — co-chaired by Dr. Rebecca Campbell, professor of psychology and Lt. Andrea Munford, coordinator of the Center for Trauma-Informed Investigative Excellence at the MSU Police Department — was formed in 2018 to make immediate recommendations to transform MSU’s institutional response to RVSM and oversee the implementation of those changes in the wake of the Larry Nassar crisis. Members of the workgroup were appointed by the president based on their expertise in RVSM services, prevention, policy and/or research.
“What we've learned through conversations through the Nassar case and through other cases and conversations with survivors and with other community stakeholders is that people didn't report what was going on because we as a university didn't give them a safe place to report,” says Munford. “There was a lot of judgment and inaction in reporting. And that became more known that there was a pattern there. And so people stopped reporting because they didn't feel like it was safe to do so.”
“I also heard people didn't know where to go,” adds Campbell. “They didn't know what services we had, and they didn't know how to access them. We've had longstanding victim service programs, both in sexual assault and in relationship violence and stalking for decades, actually very strong programs, good trauma-informed services, and people didn't know that they were there. We knew that we needed to be doing more to create clear, accessible pathways to the services that we have and to strengthen those services. There was still more we needed to do in those services. Both in terms of improving options for reporting and in terms of getting support in healthcare, we needed to start over and we needed to really think through how to make accessible pathways for victims.
“We did a lot of listening. We have been in campus engagement sessions since spring of 2018. We've had an online portal forum where people could send in their suggestions, their comments, their concerns, their anger, and their fears. We read all of those. We did a crosswalk between our current programming and national recommended best practices to identify all of the gaps. And then we spent months looking at model programs, looking at what we had, and applying for grants. We have a number of initiatives in this plan that are funded in collaboration with the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, the Division of Victim Services, to create new programs. It was a combination of a lot of feedback, bringing some outside perspectives into the university through those funders and through consulting with national organizations to identify what would be model practices and to build out a plan around those.”
Campbell and Munford define relationship violence and sexual misconduct, and Munford defines trauma-informed.
“Being trauma-informed is really understanding what neurobiology of trauma looks like,” says Munford. “It's understanding that your body reacts in ways during trauma that somebody else may not recognize if they don't understand what that means. It's working with somebody who is in trauma and being able to support them through it because they may not know why their body and their mind is reacting a certain way and being able to guide them through that process by providing supportive measures along the way, too. Working with a survivor of sexual assault while they're in that trauma and what they're telling you about what happened may not make sense because their mind really in the midst of that trauma isn't processing it sequentially or their memories are very fragmented. And so, they're not able to say, ‘This is how it started. And this happened.’ That's not really how most people's minds work during trauma.
“So, guiding them through that process and saying, ‘I understand that you won't be able to tell me what happened from the beginning to the end manner. And that's okay. Tell me what you remember, and we can start from there.’ We've all in the past just made assumptions when someone comes forward to report something. And if it doesn't sound like an accurate story and because maybe we didn't know what trauma can do to people, we just assume they were lying. Understanding how trauma affects somebody helps us do a better investigation and helps us support a survivor better. And regardless of what process someone chooses, the outcome is better because we've supported them along the way.”
“One of the things we've been focusing on in the strategic plan is to look at all of the different stakeholder groups on campus like the survivors, the helpers, the leaders, the campus community, and our service providers to ask what training they have received,” adds Campbell. “Do they have training that's consistent with empirical research? Do they understand the impact of trauma? And are we preparing them to receive disclosures and to know how trauma affects people and to be able to respond in an empathic way and to connect people to support services? A lot of the initiatives in our strategic plan focus on training of the campus community in small groups and large groups and our leadership to know those basics of what trauma is, how trauma affects people, and what their role is in being part of a trauma-informed community.”
Campbell and Munford describe the values-driven and principles-focused approach to developing the plan and discuss how the plan needs to be intersectional.
“Violence is experienced differently in different communities, and certain communities have higher rates,” continues Campbell. “Depending on people's intersectional identities, they're going to need and want different resources. And different resources are going to feel more or less supportive or safe for them. It's not a one-size-fits-all, and we really need to be having multiple options for people depending upon what is safe and supportive for them.
“We also wanted to focus on the fact that all of our actions need to be trauma-informed, that we need to build on the work that Andrea has done in creating trauma-informed investigations to really think about how we do trauma-informed services all throughout the university. So that no matter where a survivor reaches out and to whom they may disclose, that that person has a fundamental understanding of trauma and can respond supportively and connect people to services.”
Specific initiatives of the plan?
“Our data from the Know More survey told us that the number experiencing RVSM was a much larger number than the people who were seeking help,” adds Campbell.
“Seeking help could include reporting to the police or Title IX, but it also means reaching out to victim service programs or employee assistance. And we just weren't having very many people come forward to seek help. We need to increase help seeking, and we need to make clear, accessible paths for people to receive help and support. And we simply need to reduce the number of people experiencing this. We need a real strong focus on prevention to reduce the incidents of RVSM.
“In terms of increasing help seeking, research is very clear, we need three critical things. Number one, we need trauma-informed services and clear, accessible ways to get to those services. Second, we need a trauma-informed culture. People need to feel safe to disclose, and the people in that community, particularly the leaders, need to know how to respond in a trauma-informed empathic way. And third, we have to change the way we handle RVSM sanctions and discipline. People will not report and they will not seek help if they don't believe that the institution will take it seriously. The office of the provost is initiating sweeping changes in how they approach sanctions and discipline process.
“On the side of preventing RVSM from ever happening in the first place, again, research gives us three very clear directions. Number one, we need to look at what resources and education and intervention we're providing for those who have been found responsible. Because without education and intervention, research is pretty clear they may commit those acts again. So that is often referred to as secondary prevention. For those who've already done it, what do we do to educate and intervene to make sure they don't do it again? The second key thing that research tells us we need to do is focus on the primary prevention, so it ever happening in the first place. And there what we really want to be focusing on is developing skills that all members of the community need to recognize that this is a situation that could result in relationship violence, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, or workplace incivility, and that they have the skills to intervene.
“It's often called bystander intervention, meaning a person understands and recognizes what the dynamics are and that they have the skills and feel empowered to intervene, that they don't just sit back, that they don't just sit silently and go, ‘Oh, well. There goes so and so again being the way they are in a faculty meeting. And there they are again, treating staff that way,’ to say, ‘No, that's not okay.’ And that they have the skills and the confidence to intervene to say, ‘No, that's not going to happen. I'm concerned about your behavior. We need to redirect that.’ We need to teach people those skills. And third, we need to create respectful work environments. And we have a lot of sub-initiatives, a lot of specific projects that are really focusing on creating a respectful work environment because what that does is it sets what the behavioral expectations are. What are our norms? What do we expect all students, faculty, and staff to do in being a member of this community?”
“There's an ongoing training for leadership called, Creating and Sustaining a Respectful Work Environment,” adds Munford. “It focuses on what leaders can do in regards to early intervention and addressing behavior in the right way. And depending on the severity of it, what needs to happen from there, from creating an environment and not just creating it upfront, but sustaining it. So there's ongoing work that needs to happen, communication with folks in a unit to make sure that everyone understands that there are certain behaviors that won't be tolerated, and if that behavior does occur, following up appropriately. We must teach our leaders what the process looks like and what their part in it is. And again, giving them the tools to be able to run a unit and sustain it so that there's a culture and foundation of respect.”
What about a timeline for and evaluation of progress?
“One of the things that was really important to us in this strategic plan was developing a robust evaluation of it,” says Campbell. “Putting out a bunch of initiatives doesn't really do much if you don't evaluate them and know whether they're working. We already did one climate survey in 2019. And as part of that, we collected really rigorous baseline data in terms of the incidents of RVSM, how many people are experiencing it, what the help seeking was, where people are reporting to, and measures of climate, how are they feeling about the leadership of the university, our culture around RVSM. That provides us baseline data that then we can return to in the spring of 2022 and in the spring of 2024 to see if we're seeing demonstrable change. What we're hoping for is that the rates of help seeking - again that can include reporting, but it doesn't necessarily mean formal reporting to Title IX or the police – continue to go up; we're hoping for statistically significant improvements in those.
“We're also hoping to see that our primary prevention programs are working and that the overall incidents of relationship violence, sexual misconduct, and workplace incivility are decreasing. And we're hoping to see changes in those climate measures and that people feel that this is a serious issue of RVSM, that our leadership are invested, and that we are making significant progress in transforming the culture of that. All of those data are publicly available through the office of civil rights website. And all future evaluation data will also be public. Accountability is important; transparency is important. We need to be putting those data out for public engagement, which we have, and will continue to do so. And if we find that those metrics are not changing, it's our responsibility to dig into that to understand why. Is there a problem in our programming? Where is it missing the mark? What do we need to be doing better? How can we improve this? It's a living, breathing plan of continuous improvement and change over time.”
Campbell and Munford feel good about doing this important work.
“I'm often asked, ‘Isn't this hard, isn't this depressing?’ Certainly, there are days when it is, but by and large it's not,” Campbell says. “I love this job. I love this role because every single day, I get to meet people at MSU who are committed to this issue and want to be part of the solution. I meet people from literally all different parts of this university in all different roles who ask me about this work and who want to know how they can help. I meet deans who are committed to this work, and I meet student activists. The number of people we get to interact with here at MSU who are really committed to this work is inspiring.”
“And working with survivors of relationship violence and sexual misconduct, whether it's sexual assault or sexual harassment, and being able to make a process for them better is rewarding because they already went through a horrible traumatic event,” Munford adds. “And sometimes the processes themselves, if not done correctly, are just another traumatic event. Going through the Nassar investigation, the criminal investigation, the university investigation, I watched the layers of trauma over and over again. The failures that these survivors experienced on so many different levels are not okay, and it needs to be addressed. It can't just be, ‘Let's fix it right now for compliance to say we did;’ it has to be ongoing, and it has to be re-evaluated.
“We have to learn as we go and keep improving systems so that people have a safe place to go to report. Again, it doesn't mean reporting to police or Title IX all of the time. It can, but it means having places in the university where people are comfortable talking about their experience so that they can get support. And again, there are so many different facets to that that we have to be able to look at this comprehensively to make sure that we're covering all of these areas and building a much-improved system than what we've been working with. And for me, like Becki said, there are days you feel like you're just spinning your wheels. And then there's a breakthrough. This is my calling. This is why I'm doing the work I'm doing because people deserve better.”
It's rewarding for Campbell and Munford to have support right from the very top in President Stanley.
“President Stanley's commitment to this has been very clear from day one,” says Campbell. “Back in the days when we actually got to work in our offices at MSU, our offices are literally next door to his. We've had the opportunity to have those hallway chats with him. He asks how we're doing. He sees us heading out to different campus meetings. We see him later on and he asks, 'How did it go?’ When he came to MSU, in addition to the required training that all students, faculty and staff participate in, he asked for additional training on trauma and the impact of trauma. He is genuinely very curious and wants to know the current research on this to add that into his own knowledge as a physician.”
“He sincerely cares about the community and really wants to improve culture in many different areas,” Munford adds. “He has been very committed to the RVSM initiatives and very supportive of Becki and me and the work that we do.”
What are a couple of key takeaways you'd each like people to take from the plan?
“For our community, no matter what your role is, when you know better, you're able to do better, but you have to make the choice to do so,” Munford says. “As this plan is rolling out, be engaged, pay attention, and make a choice to do better because there's a lot of information that helps you know better.”
“We can change the culture at MSU,” Campbell adds. “It's not going to be easy, and it's not going to be quick. For it to be real, it has to be meaningful, and it has to take time. And it has to take all parts of the university. It has to take our leaders, it has to take our faculty, our deans, our staff, and our students. It has to take everybody. The plan outlines many concrete behavioral things that we can and must do to decrease the prevalence of relationship violence and sexual misconduct and to make it easier for survivors to seek help and support.
“I encourage people to read the report. It presents the underlying philosophy and the values and the principles that inform this work. It describes the process of how we did this and all of the different data sources. And it lays out all of the different initiatives.”
MSU Today airs Sunday mornings at 9:00 on 105.1 FM and AM 870 and streams at wkar.org. Find “MSU Today with Russ White” at Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.
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I host and produce MSU Today for News/Talk 760 @wjrradio and @MichiganStateU's @NPR affiliate @WKAR News/Talk 102.3 FM and AM 870.