Russ White 0:00
Well as COVID-19 restrictions lift, many people are finding themselves getting called back to in person work environments after several months in remote settings to help those grappling with anxiety and uncertainty surrounding this return to normal, Angela Hall, associate professor at Michigan State University's renowned School of Human Resources and labor relations, is offering some tips for making the transition as smooth and stress free as possible. So Angela, welcome to the program for having me today. Russ, I'm really glad to be here. What So what are some tips for adjusting from a work from home back to a nine to five schedule.

Unknown Speaker 0:41
So first of all, I would say be easy on yourself. We've been living in a weird state of reality for the past year plus months. And so you know, practice some grades and show yourself some grace. As far as some practical tips, things that are important to consider are practicing. You know, we're so used to just rolling out of bed in our sweats and then jumping into a zoom call, pretty close to what I did this morning. But you know, when you have to get ready for a commute, you have to pack a lunch, you have to let your dog out. No, do that. So that the first day back the first week back, that that won't be so stressful that by the time you get to work, that you are panting and sweating, and just overly anxious. Another thing that I think is really important for people to do, whether you're working at home, or in the office or hybrid type of model, is that you need to create a daily, a weekly, or even a monthly schedule. It's not only to hold yourself accountable, but to map out where you're going. I think that if you work without a schedule, it's like saying, Oh, I'm going to make it to the Grand Canyon, and you just start driving West, you don't know how you're going to get there. What rows are things like that you need to plan you don't know where you're going, just spend the night in a hotel, you have to map out where you're going. And sometimes things crazy things happen. or unexpected things happen during the day or the week of the month, that might throw you off your schedule. But I think that's an important way to keep yourself accountable, keep yourself on track, give you a roadmap. But also, you can see where you're doing time, like time drains, a lot of us have those time sucks and you're like, wow, I should have done this, by the end, by the end of the day on Wednesday, and I haven't even gotten started, it can let you look back and see where you're having those types of bottlenecks. Another thing that I think that a lot of us, including myself, constantly we need to remind yourself is to be generous when scheduling your meetings, and assign yourself tasks. A lot of times I say, you know, to my to people that I consult with, because I do know, that amount of external consulting is that, you know, you've got to say, Okay, if you're going to do a meeting from nine to 10, don't necessarily get the next meeting at 10, you need to have that you have to factor in some times that it might win over you have to take though, like my friend in the business school likes to call biology breaks, things like that, you do not even have to check your emails. So giving yourself that question. And I know someone who always least schedules 15 minutes between meetings. And I think that's very, very important. Another thing that I wanted to really emphasize is that, you know, a lot of things that we did before the pandemic, we did them that way, because we always did them that way. And it was, you know, you know, we didn't really question our routines, our processes, but now it's an opportunity to hit the reset button. And we realized during this pandemic and working from home, that we could be creative and streamline processes. And you know, and be very innovative. So as you go back to work, you know it I don't think people should go back to the same old, same old, they should be thinking of some ways where they can make their jobs more efficient, easier for themselves, better provide better service for their customers, their clients, their patients. And you know, think about being innovative, because I think this is a real good opportunity to hit the reset button.

Russ White 4:43
And Angela, what are some tangible ways that employees can practice self care during the workday? If they feel anxious or overwhelmed,

Unknown Speaker 4:51
it's normal, that people are feeling stressed out right now. I'm feeling stressed out right now. You know, we're dealing With the Delta variant, you haven't been in the office for a long period of time, things are very, very new inward, and things are constantly changing. And what I like to tell people, especially here in the United States, despite what's happening politically, despite what's happening, you know, with the pandemic, we have lived for the last, you know, couple of 100 years, at least since the Civil War in relatively certainty, you know, we're not being invaded, when we flip the light switch, electricity comes on. But we have a lower tolerance of ambiguity, uncertainty change. So realize that it's normal to feel stressed out and out of stores. And you know, if you practice that grace, that first step, another thing that as far as self care, is to take five minutes, practice meditation, listening to music, going for a walk, hanging out with your COVID pet, doing things like that, that you block out that period of time for you to reset. And because it is stressful, I mean, just we're still live in a pandemic. And it's going to be even more difficult as people transition back. And as people who have children transition back from the school year, a lot of kids are going back to school, how you negotiate that. So know that you need to take that time out for yourself. The other thing that I think is very important is to solicit social support. Whether that means leaning on your co workers, commiserating with them, talking, being transparent with your boss, about what kind of means that you may have, or some apprehensions joining some type of employee resource group, or support group where you have other people that you can talk to lean on people who are in your professional network, I wouldn't be where I am today, I just have a great network of people to be able to lean on to bounce questions off, and not be afraid to ask for help. And it's to the point that you're depressed because a lot of people are depressed, reach out to your employee assistance plan, try to find some type of counseling, or doing some things that support you that you could stay mentally healthy.

Russ White 7:30
What about for employees who may be asked to come to the office more than they may be comfortable? What are some good tactics for addressing those concerns with their supervisors?

Unknown Speaker 7:39
This is this really resonates with me because I have a child, for example, who has immunocompromised and is on immunosuppressants. And I had a very frank conversation with my boss, and I said, You know, I don't feel comfortable coming in right now, because she's very, very sick. And he was like, he was so cool about it, everyone about it, they were like, No, no, we want to help you. I mean, I think that this year, this past year and a half people have become more empathetic, they realize that times are tough, and to be transparent about what you're going through, rather than trying to come back and be resentful, or because you should have said something that you didn't. But there are situations where you just can't work remotely, you are a nurse, or you have an organization, which is just not allowing people to work remotely. Well, there are some things that you could try to do, you could try to have a schedule, maybe where you are coming in only a couple of days a week, or you could try to ask for a certain type of space where you could be more socially distanced from people. You could ask those around, you know, I've got some problems. You know, like, I have some concerns. Do you mind masking, those types of things are, you know, the transparency and being proactive. Also, if you feel that you cannot come back, for whatever reason, like you're immuno suppressed, or someone in your family, my family is immunosuppressed. You can arm yourself with data, you can tell your boss, hey, you know, for the past year and a half, I've been working at home, and you know, thanks for working out. Okay. I've been able to do my work. I haven't been able to be proficient. No, I haven't had complaints from customers, clients, co workers. And this is my productivity. This is my performance in the past. And let me show you how many hold myself accountable in the future. I tried to negotiate and say Hey, why don't you let me continue to work from home remotely until you know beings until you see a problem and then we can try to read this Bad. But if things aren't broken, why try to fix them. And that all goes, part and parcel with explaining why you want to work from home. And being able to dress the concerns that your boss may have. A big concern for a lot of bosses is that they want to, they're afraid about the office culture, that things may not work as well, or be as cohesive, the people aren't working or being the opposite of each other face to face. But you can talk about having zoom meetings on a regular basis, one on one, or a group ones, or meeting people socially distanced for a short period of time, so that you can see their face, there's some people that I only have known for the past year overdue, and then I see him face to face and look over them, when you're a lot taller, much shorter than I thought you were. Um, and so you could do things like that, and to, you know, address your boss's concerns, but still, you know, arm yourself with that data. And hopefully you can reach some type of compromise or happy medium where you've laid your boss concerns. But you've also laid some of your own

Russ White 11:13
and Angela, from the employers perspective, then what are some things employers can do to help their employees transition smoothly back into the office,

Unknown Speaker 11:21
don't expect things to be perfect when you come back? For example, I haven't worked the photocopier in my office for a year and a half. trust you. Trust me, Russ, I don't know what to do. If paper gets stuck in there, I'm going to be calling someone for help. So imagine things are going to be hiccups, things are gonna take a little bit longer. Even just for example, my husband just went back to work. He's an attorney with the state of Michigan, and he works on the eighth floor. So he has the budget and more time to get up to his office. Because either he has to walk up the stairs, or it only one or two people can go in the elevator, can you imagine eight o'clock and everyone's going in. So a met so you have to expect that things are not going to be like there were before. You've got to also practice regularly check ins with your employees to make sure that you discuss their concerns. And so they can also feel they can feel validated and feel hurt. Even if you can't change things for them. Just notion of employees being able to engage in what we call voice, being able to air their concerns, we know goes a lot goes very far in terms of employee well being mental health, productivity, and all those types of things. Another practical type of thing is to schedule meetings for midday rather than early morning, at the end of the day, we all get zoom fatigue. And so you don't want to have these meetings necessarily at the end of the day. The other thing is, people have to get used to that commute, finding a parking space walking in. So you don't you know, people are all you know, as my grandmother used to say discombobulated when they come in, you want to give them an opportunity to calm down and relax. And so that 8am meeting is probably not the best thing. Another thing you want to be open to getting feedback to employees about how the jobs can be done better. You know, even the best boss, especially if the boss has never done the same job as employee or hasn't done the same job of the employee as in a while because they've been promoted from that. They don't know how it is to do it day to day. And a lot of times the best advice you can get about streamlining a process or making things go well, or, or to hear back from your employees and to solicit that kind of information. So being open to feedback is very, very important.

Russ White 13:51
My guest is Angela Hall on MSU. Today, Dr. Hall is Associate Professor and MSU is renowned School of Human Resources and labor relations. She's been sharing her tips for making the transition as smooth and stress free as possible. back into the office and Angela on sort of a more 30,000 foot view after a good year and a half of a lot of us working from home. How do you see the rise and acceptance of more remote work playing out in the years ahead where people seem to want more work life balance and some of the power seems to be shifting more in the employee direction. But where do you see all this headed?

Unknown Speaker 14:30
I see this as the next wave of the labor movement in a way because you're right there has been a shifting of power ever since there's been a decline in unionization rate. And ever since, you know, employees employers have switched from having, for example, pensions before one case where employees move around. Employers have had the know That, you know, we may treat certain pockets of employees really, really well. But overall, we have the power. Because, you know, oftentimes there's more supply than there is demand and such. Now there's been a power shift. And and there's so many people who say, Hey, I'm not even coming back to the office. And there are so many people that this is the time for me to hit the reset button. And also a practical concern is that for a lot of, for a lot of employees, a lot of states staying home and collecting unemployment might be a you know, for them, you know, a better alternative than going to a boss that is abusive, or the work conditions aren't good. And it's not because they just want a free ride. But they'd rather get a job where they're treated like a human being, rather than going someplace and making 12 bucks an hour, and going through hell every time they go to work. And so employers have to think about, yeah, you we need to treat our employees better, you have to see them instead of as an expense, as not an expense. But as a resource, you're not an expense or trying to minimize your a resource or an asset that you're investing. You need to empower employees, hear their voices at solicit feedback from them. But you also need to make sure you have good two way communication, like having transparency about what you're doing. Even if the communication from the employer, if we don't know, we're living in uncertain times, we'll keep you posted. But as of this moment, we really don't know. Another thing I think it's really good is to have to have town halls with your employees, like virtual town halls, where they can post questions and such. And also for your employees who are there face to face, do something called walking tour, where you would go and actually go in there and talk to your employees, see how they're doing. And you don't want there to be created a big chasm between the frontline workers going to work. And then the higher paid or mid management or executive work from home or safe and away from all the drama. So as a manager, even if you are working remotely, some of the time, you need to come in, at least on a regular basis, check in with employees see how they're doing, and to hear their voice.

Russ White 17:35
And another one of these macro questions, Dr. Hall from that 30,000 foot view what are and I know we could have a conference on this. But what are some other issues, challenges and opportunities in the fields of human resources and labor relations

Unknown Speaker 17:49
and other challenges? I think the biggest challenge is the notion of diversity, equity and inclusion, particularly from the notion so as a person of color, I am an afro Latina, first generation from Panama, my parents came from Panama in 1960s. And I know like the D movement, which I can say, for example, in the academic field of human resource management, got very little love, for many, many generations, is that my advisors were when I was at Florida State told me to stay away from any of those types of issues, because he didn't want me to be looked at as an angry black woman. And that and that was good advice, because it would have been career suicide. But now, people are really interested in diversity, equity inclusion. And so we need to make sure that this is not just a moment. This is a movement. And it's not just people of color. It is anybody feels included and valued in the workplace, whether it's because of your gender identity or orientation, whether it's because you have a disability, you're a veteran, you are your low income worker, you are whatever. So I think that's an issue that needs to be ingrained. And we're going to see this within the field of Human Resources. Another thing that you that is very, very, very important is the notion of artificial intelligence and technology and their their plates in the workplace. And the fact that once again, we don't want there to be a chasm created. We don't want the those employees are left behind because they're not trained, or because they're being replaced by technology and having them find a way for their them to have a place in the workplace. Because the types of skills that you are ever changing. Another trend that you're going to see in human resources and you'd seen it before the pandemic but you're seeing even more something called job crafting and job crafting is. So you are happy to have a specific role in the workplace or position a job description. But more and more employers are allowing people to craft their job into a job that fits their skills. So for example, you may be better at like, creating reports, and your coworker may be better at analyzing the data, and you have the same role, but you do more of the report generation, and that person does more of the data analysis, and you go for it like that. So job crafting and finding ways that employees can thrive in their roles. You're gonna see definitely more and more that in the future.

Russ White 20:45
a two part question for you. Dr. Hall is for what first attracted you to MSU? Was it more than this the renown of the school? And what are some of your own research interests.

Unknown Speaker 20:56
So what attracted me to MSU is that I'm in the multi disciplinary School of Human Resources and labor relations. And what attracted me there is that it is one of the few schools of HR and LR that are in the country. And we have economist we have IO psychologists, we have people like me, who have PhDs in management. Also there, there were two other faculty there for like me, who have PhDs in management, and a law degree. So the fact that I could do multidisciplinary research at a at a top ranked program really attracted me, and that I could learn from people from other disciplines. It's really cool being able to work with a psychologist or such. And the great thing about MSU is that we're able to work with people so easily from other disciplines. So currently, I'm working with some faculty and students in the College of Engineering, particularly Andrew Mason, who's also a real dear friend of mine. And we're working on some type of technology, which may be able to detect bias in people in their action, and to give them feedback about that. And so those are some opportunities that I got here at MSU. As far as the second part of your question, you're talking about research. I'm working on that research, like I mentioned in the College of Engineering. I'm also working on some interesting research with Kirk Munoz in the College of Veterinary Medicine. And we're looking at the relationship that people have with their animals, and how their relationship with their pets impacts how they do work. Like for example, bringing your pet to work, or your your pet as a buffer. Another but the main thing that I am known for if you were to Google me is that I study employee accountability and an accountability, it means the belief or expectation that you'll be called to account for your action, you'll be called on the carpet. And because we feel like we're going to have to account for things we might we adapt certain type of behaviors, it might be covering, you know, that that that that cypa type of situation, or it could be a situation where we can move others think about this long and hard because my boss is gonna ask me why did that so I better have some good explanations. And so I'm looking at how employers can promote accountability, how people react accountability, because just keeping on accountability on employees is not the best thing. Because as we know that there is like curve, it goes up, you know, performance goes up. But if you keep on keeping countability on people, they start to crash and burn, they become stressed out. And so you have to find that sweet spot. The other app accountability research I'm really, really excited about. It's how people from historically marginalized groups manage their accountability. So for example, as a person of color, like they would like to say, for example, I'm driving while black, right? So I always drive like two miles down the speed limit. So I know that let's say I were a salesperson, and I had to travel to different locations, I would have to build in more time than maybe somebody else who feels more comfortable with driving five miles above the speed limit. But I know I don't want to have any like interaction with like, you know, getting stopped by law enforcement and things like that. So like as people of color we, you know, we talked about we give our children to talk about how to interact with things with with law enforcement, I try to avoid it until I know that it takes me longer to do things for example. So how we manage our personal accountability at work when you're a person from a historically marginalized group. That's another thing that I study.

Russ White 24:53
We're talking angela on the MSU today podcast. Do you have your own podcast? Tell me about it. What you Focus on and why you think this medium is a good way to get your message out?

Unknown Speaker 25:04
Oh, thank you for asking me that question. So I have a podcast series called people talk with Angela Hall. It is available on Apple and Spotify or anywhere you get your podcast. And the reason why I started it is because of my really good friend Tom DeWitt, who is a faculty member in the broad College of Business at MSU. And he and I are, I work with them, which is cx of M radio, which is customer experience management. And in we have a whole series where we do workshops. And part of what we do is that we also have this podcast series and I talk about the HR aspect, how you engage motivate your employees, but also issues about career leadership, career management, diversity, equity, inclusion, and all of those matters. And so Tom has me do the people side of customer experience management. I do it also with my other good friend. She has another one, too, Dr. Takaya, she does her own podcast series that is very much related to mine. But yeah, check me out people talk but with Angela Hall, and it's a very, very fun thing. And we get to talk about timely topical things related to HR. I never thought I had a podcast series. And that's why it's good to have a good network. My friend Tom has been friends with me since we were in our Ph. D program with one and prompted me to do so

Russ White 26:37
well, this is MSU. Today, my guest has been Angela Hall. She's associate professor in Michigan State University's world renowned School of Human Resources and labor relations. And the main reason we were talking is to get Angela's advice and tips for making the transition as smooth and stress free back to the office as many are doing now. So Angela, just kind of summarize some of your tips as we close

Unknown Speaker 27:01
what I think number one is that as an employee or as an employee, or either depressed, it's great that you're assaulting others. You need to be open and transparent about what you're feeling. And you need to solicit feedback from others. You need to lean on others and seek social support and not seek social support. Once you start flailing, you need to seek that kind of support from the beginning. Employers need to think about having things like town calls and open communications and employee should feel empowered to talk to their employers about what's happened. We all realize too, that we're in a time where things are pretty ambiguous right now. And that we have to realize that what is okay today may be very different tomorrow. And just remember that we're just going to have to practice some flexibility.

Russ White 27:55
Well, Angela, I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today. Thank you so much. And I am Russ white. This is MSU today

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