Russ White 0:00
It's the holiday season. So it's great to welcome Burt Craig back to MSU. Today Bert is a professor of both forestry and horticulture at Michigan State University and a Christmas tree specialist. So Burt, great to have you back on the program. Good to be here us. Thanks. What's the latest sort of state of the health of the Christmas tree? industry, particularly in Michigan, but but around the country? How's the industry doing?

Unknown Speaker 0:24
doing quite well, actually, I think things are going well with our growers. You know, demand has been up the last few years, Christmas tree industry is pretty, pretty concerted effort into promotion, the growers themselves voted for what's called a promotion package some years ago, and so that those funds are kicking in as sort of a self tax 15 cents per tree goes into this promotion fund also helps to support research. And so the promotion, you know, is starting to pay off. And so demand has been good. And so I think we're seeing a good a good industry growth these days. And Bert, what is some of the latest research you and your colleagues are involved in as it relates to Christmas trees? Yeah, so we've got lots and lots of things going on at different levels. So kind of an on the broadest scale, we're involved in kind of a multi state effort, we have a project looking at Turkish for and Trojan for which are both for species that grow, as you would guess, in Turkey and the Mediterranean region. And so we've been working for the past, oh, eight, nine years now in evaluating those, along with colleagues at Washington State, Oregon State, North Carolina State, Penn State and the Connecticut ag Experiment Station. So the idea there is we're always looking for ways to improve the the Christmas tree industry. In this case, we're looking at new species. These are some species that has some advantages in terms of particularly disease resistance. And so we think that can can help our growers in the long run. So right now we're just trying to evaluate how the trees grow in the different regions. We were just in the lab yesterday working out some cold tolerance with some of the samples from Washington State. So it really is kind of a national level kind of initiative and things we're working towards to help the industry. Closer to home, we've had a long term project going on looking at coning and Frasier firm Frazier for is our premier species here in Michigan. For the growers, it's a bit of a challenge. The trees tend to produce cones at an early age doesn't seem like it would be a big issue probably for the for the person on the street. But for the grower, it is they need to pick these cones off when they start to develop, and it's a huge labor issue can even be a safety issue that folks are up on ladders, you know, trying to pick these cones off when they're getting ready when the trees are getting bigger. So we've been been working on that through several different efforts and making some progress. Actually, we've been looking at plant growth regulators and other approaches for dealing with the problem. So we're, we're contributing to the growers that way.

Russ White 3:06
Bert, you mentioned the demand for real trees has been up recently. What about the supply? Bill? You've mentioned the national shortage, is that correct?

Unknown Speaker 3:15
Yeah. Well, it's it seems to come up every year. I don't know I think you know, you're here involved in, in journalism, I think they all go to school for the the grab your wallet story, I don't know, every, every time. And so Christmas tree production is cyclic. And so it usually takes eight to 10 years to produce a tree. And so we've often seen this, you know, you can't see my hand going up and down here. But But this constant sort of wave where prices go up. A lot of people get into it think this is a good thing. And then eight to nine years later, you have an oversupply, prices go down, people get out. And so we've always kind of had this this cycle. And so we are in little bit of the of the down cycle in terms of the supply. So prices are up somewhat the supply issue and you'll hear this national Christmas trees shortage in the grab your wallet story on the on the local news. And really, for the consumer, I don't think it's going to be a big issue. The people that are going to feel it would be say someone that's running a local corner Christmas trees stand. Now, if they haven't been taken care of their supply and getting up their inventory lined up, you know, they could find themselves in a situation where they sell out and then are not able to get resupplied. So in that standpoint, you know, you could see some issues for the consumer, you know, you go to the stand down the street, and they're probably got trees, so I don't think it's necessarily going to be a direct impact for the consumer. But probably for those people that have the the corner lot, and again, haven't necessarily kept up with their inventory and planning. They could find themselves scrambling to get trees, but I think for the consumer trees, they'll be out there. You know, you might need to look a little long, you might want to look at a species a little different. Once you've had in the past if you you have always had Frasier for maybe you want to look at a con color or some other species, you know depending on what's available at your lodge or the choosing cup place where you go, Bert, what are some of your favorite species or some that you

Russ White 5:14
recommend if the Frasier for if somebody wants to do something different?

Unknown Speaker 5:18
Yeah, well of course free differ is is the preferred species and that's where where a lot of our market is going. I do like concolor for bats, one that has a great scent to it kind of citrusy, almost a different look to it. It's kind of bluish, they can be as blue as the blue spruce. They have kind of a longer needle so maybe a little bit of a coarser kind of appearance, but really a nice a nice look. So that's one there also, you know, Kinane for is out there. It's a close relative of both Frasier for and balsam for there's sometimes described as a hybrid, they're not there. They're rexy just a seed source of balsam further grows in West Virginia in the Canon Canadian Valley. But it's very close to Frazier for looks very similar in appearance, good needle retention, all of that. So those would be some to look for. One thing about Michigan even if you go to a choosen cut farm, you know, we tend to grow more species than a lot of parts of the country. Out in the West, they grow primarily noble for and Douglas fir. And then in North Carolina, they grow almost exclusively, Frazier, but at Michigan, Michigan, if you go to choosing cut farm, it's not uncommon to find six, eight different species growing on on one farm. So there's lots of choices, a lot of it gets down to personal preference. Some people still like scotch pine, you know, of all things, you know, a lot of tradition in the holidays and Christmas. And that's what a lot of people grew up with. It was sort of the bread and butter of the Michigan industry for years and years. So there's still you know, some of those out there. White Pine is, you know, if you want a large tree, but don't wanna spend a lot of money, there's an option for you. So really just, I think, go out there with an open mind, see what see what strikes your fancy. And, you know, usually it's the kids that make the decision anyway, so

Russ White 7:05
And what about climate change is impacting the Michigan Christmas tree industry? And if so, how?

Unknown Speaker 7:11
Yeah, that's that's a good question. I don't know that directly. We're seeing the impacts, probably it's a little more subtle kind of thing. We are concerned with past, you know, one of the things that people tend to overlook with with climate change is, you know, a lot of focus on Well, it's going to be hotter and drier and these kinds of things. But the other side of it is what's going on with our winter temperatures. And so as we have mild and milder winters that can allow certain pests insect past overwinter better, their species, their range may expand. So we could be seeing, you know, pesah we haven't seen before they're moving up from the south. So So those kind of things. So it's certainly there. I don't know that we'll you know, it's not, you know, we wake up one day, and oh, yeah, that was climate change. It's more subtle kinds of things. Probably the one thing I'd say that we do see, more commonly now that that could be climate change related is the incidence of late frost damage. And again, it's, it seems, it seems, you know, we think about hotter, drier, but it's also when we get these early spring warm ups. So if you think back 2012 when we had that thing that wiped out the the cherry crops, we had 80 degree weather here in East Lansing, we had a week of 80 degree weather in the third week of March. And so as we see more and more of those kinds of events, those also have impacts on Christmas trees, I talked about concolor for being a species that would be a good alternative to Frasier. One of the issues with concolor further though is it tends to break butterly and so when the trees put out new shoots early in the spring, say in March, like if we get that warm up, well we know Frost's are coming right April, we're gonna get some hard freezes. And so then all those new shoot, tips get frosted back, and those trees probably not going to be saleable that year, you know, the next year will grow through it and, and all of that, but so those kinds of things are the kinds of things that how climate changes is going to impact our Christmas to grow is not going to be one day we wake up was too hot to grow Christmas trees, it's going to be the past it's going to be the late frost damage because that early warm up, and then we do see issues with heat and drought. And that's really on the on the grower side, that's mainly in terms of getting new plantations established so they want to the young seedlings are the ones that are most susceptible to drought. Once the trees are up and established four or five years old, you know, they can probably withstand most summers we're going to have, but when we get those hot, dry conditions, right after they've planted their new seedlings, those trees are very vulnerable to heat and drought.

Russ White 9:49
We're talking about real Michigan Christmas trees here on MSU. Today, my guest is Bert Greg. He's a professor of both forestry and horticulture at Michigan State University and Burt, you're affiliated with a group called the Michigan Christmas tree Association, can you tell us a little bit about who they are their mission and what someone might find if they go to mcta.org?

Unknown Speaker 10:12
Yeah, so we work closely with the Michigan Christmas tree Association. So it's as the name implies, it's a group of growers that band together. And so they do a lot of things, primarily, information sharing. So they have meetings when we're not having COVID, we do them in person. But lately, we've had them virtually, but they sponsor meetings for the growers. So people like myself will get other experts from around the country come in, give the growers the latest information on how to manage their past, business management, all of those those kinds of things, as well as it's a forum for them to get together and share information with one another, which is probably more important even than to hearing from people like me. So that's a big part of it, we work closely with them, we helped organize the educational part of their programs, they have a very nice magazine that comes out quarterly. And so I work with them to help develop content for the magazine either writing articles or looking for people that are appropriate to write the articles for them. So a lot of education associated with that for the public, I would definitely encourage them to go to the Michigan Christmas tree Association website, just google Michigan Christmas trees, or as you said, mca.org for consumers, and I think there is they have a map of the state. And so it's a kind of a searchable clickable map there. And you can zoom in, and you can find the growers in your location that have trees, I believe you can look on there, it'll show you that where the where the farms are their contact info, if you want to call ahead, or it also listening to types of trees they have for sale and those kind of things. So a good way. Rather than just you know, driving around looking for a farm, you can look ahead and see who's close to you. And maybe somebody closer than you knew, Bert, let's review some of your tips that are so worthwhile. First some tips in selecting your real tree. Yeah, so the thing we want to talk about when you go out to get a tree is to get the freshest tree you can. We talked about. There's lots of different types out there. So you know what you like is what you like. But the thing no matter what tree you pick, want to get the freshest tree you can. Best way to do that is go out and cut your own. And so we have literally dozens and dozens of choosing cut Christmas tree farms around the state. I suspect, pretty much anybody that's listening to this probably has, you know, a farm within 30 or 45 minutes of where they're where they're at. So if you can't, that's a great way to do it, great family activity, all of that. So that's, you know, the way to get the freshest tree possible. If you go to a lot or a big box store or garden center, a couple things you want to do. One thing is to just sort of give the poll test. And again, you can't see my hands here. But you can imagine between your thumb and your forefinger go along the chute there where the needles are, give a gentle pull that up. And that's a heartful. And you can eventually pull them all off no matter what. But you know, a gentle tug on that. And you should see those needles not coming off in your hands. If they're starting to drop that tells you want to keep looking, if you can, if you're in a lot, let's say has a blacktop parking lot or something like that. And you have the strength, you can do what we call the tap test, which is to pick the tree up and just tap gently on the button on the on the blacktop there that are the concrete. And again, you shouldn't see a lot of needles coming off. So most of these trees, once they're harvested, they'll go through a shaker. And it's a big mechanical thing. It'll shake out the loose needles and grass and birds nests. You never know what you might find in there. And so by time it gets to the LOD if you do that that tap test, you shouldn't see a lot of needles coming off. And again, if you do see, you know a lot of deals coming off then then maybe keep keep looking look at how the trees are being cared for at the lat are they being kept shaded are they left out in the sun, you know, those kind of things. And again, that all helps to keep the tree fresh. The tree is doesn't know it's dead yet. Okay, if you want to think of it that way. And so, you know, real trees, even though they're cut, they're continuing to lose water they're transpiring. They're photosynthesizing. They're doing everything just like they were out in the field. At least they will eventually we see countries and people's houses start to grow. If they don't have had enough chilling a certain species will resume grow so that tree is still functioning as if it's alive. Okay, against some sense it still is. And so you want to make sure that it's being protected. You know, it's not quite as big an issue here. A lot of places down south you know, they'll make sure the cut ends are kept in water most of the time around here if you're looking in December, it's probably below freezing anyways, they wouldn't be able to put the cut in and water but but everything that the stand could do to keep those trees fresh. You want to be looking around for that

Russ White 14:55
and what about maintaining the tree then and keeping it watered throughout The holiday season.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Yeah, yeah. So it's really we talked about three part thing fresh tree fresh cut fresh water, so you got the fresh tree, when you bring it home, even if it's a choosing cut, if you've let it set for, you know, overnight or so, I would still go ahead and cut off that but in about an inch or three fourths of an inch of that trunk, because what happens is, once that tree is cut, there are resin canals in that cross section of that wood. And that'll begin to plug up those those pores are really like a series of big drinking stir little drinking straws, right that that's carrying the water up the tree. So give that cut, and that'll that'll get rid of those, that resin that's that's clogged those pores at the end there. And then get that tree into water and get it up in the house. The big thing is water and lots of it. We hear different things, you know, bleach and aspirin and sugar and whatever else, you know, soda pop, really just water. That's all you need to do. And but lots of it. And people I don't think often appreciate how much water a tree can take up. Especially if it's a fresh tree. If you've got a choosing cut or fresh tree from a lot, again, the tree doesn't know it's dead, okay, it's gonna keep taking up water. And oftentimes, especially those first, all three or four days to a week when it's first in the house, you can almost hear that giant sucking sound as that tree is taking that water up. So check it daily, I check mine a couple times a day when I first bring it in. Especially if you have a large tree, you know, if you've got a vaulted ceiling, and you've got that 12 foot tree, you want to check that a couple times a day, especially that first week, we use the estimate about a quart of water per inch of diameter. So if you look at that cut end of your tree, they're typically going to be about three or four inches across for a normal sized Christmas tree. Well, that means that tree can take up three quarts to a gallon of water a day. And most of our stands, maybe hold a gallon. And then you have to count for the displacement of the tree itself. So definitely check that tree often. And keep the water too. And that's really the biggest thing. Also, you know, think about where you place your tree. Avoid heat sources. If you've got you know, a vent or something, make sure you put the tree away from that. Or if you can't, you know, maybe a piece of cardboard or some kind of air is not going directly onto the tree. Same thing if you can keep it away from direct sunlight that helps. So those things will all help keep the tree fresh and bird when the holidays are over. How do we properly and sustainably dispose of the tree, right, so we want to make sure that we're looking for a tree recycling. So depending on where you're at here in Michigan, different ways of doing it. Some cities have curbside pickup, this is a tree out on the curb and they and they pick it up and it gets recycled that way. A lot of other places have central recycling. So look around for that. Oftentimes, it's a park or something like that. And you can your drop your tree off. And then they'll often bring bring in a grinder or something like that. And then those trees get ground up made into mulch, go on to trails, beds, things like that. So, but definitely the thing we want to avoid is the trees ending up in landfill. So make sure that tree gets recycled. Some people out in the country, you know, put the tree out in the field and makes good bird habitat. There's some places where they drop them down into lakes and it makes fish habitat. So lots of ways of doing it. But just make sure that tree gets recycled somehow.

Russ White 18:24
And bird is is the pandemic impacting anything we've talked about is mainly a guest for the selection of the tree or just any part of the process.

Unknown Speaker 18:32
Yeah, it's it's been a big issue. And we talked about, you know, the Christmas tree Association and the kind of information sharing, and that's been a big topic, both at the meetings as well as different email streams and so forth. And a big concern for the growers. And it's, it's, you know, a two way deal. We've seen for example, with a lot of these, you want to call them ag retainment kind of things, a big spike in that the orchards, the pumpkin patches, all of that, because we all can't go very far these days. And certainly for for people with kids, you're looking for activities. And so we are seeing, you know, more people interested in that kind of thing. And so I think Christmas trees will will benefit from that. And I think just a general feeling we all have these days of you know, being home and drawing together and all of that. So I think there is some some things that will will benefit the Christmas tree growers that way. They are concerned and we all are, you know, in terms of how do we handle crowds, how do we maintain distance and all that so called a heavier farm, if you're concerned, see what they're doing. Most of them have been thinking about this since March. And they've been planning for it all along. ways of keeping people separate. You know, maybe you have to walk to the field instead of taking the wagon ride with some other people, you know, different ways of keeping people distance. Some farms are taking appointments. So again, use that website call ahead, see what they're doing. You know, you don't want to get there with a carload of kids and find out okay, this is appointment only So find out what's going on there. They're also taking steps, you know, sanitizing all of that, you know, the, if you've been choosing completion of these, and you saw, so they're making sure you know, that's all been cleaned and all of that. So I think, you know, the growers are well aware, and it's been on their radar since March, and they've been planning for it. So I think people can feel confident. But again, I would try to if you know where you're going to go, wouldn't hurt to call ahead, visit their website, visit our Facebook page, see what kind of steps are taking, and then make sure that you're ready when you get there. And so everybody can have a good experience. Get the tree one. Enjoy the holidays. Well, Burt,

Russ White 20:38
appreciate you sharing all your expertise. Is there anything important? I haven't asked you? Or do you want to summarize what you'd like us to know about real Michigan Christmas trees.

Unknown Speaker 20:46
The main thing I like to get home on this is the you know, keeping the tree fresh, you want people to have a good experience. Nothing's worse than you know, having a real tree and then getting a bunch of needles on the floor or worse, you know, have it become a safety hazard. So I think making sure that if you're getting a real tree, and especially for people that maybe haven't had a real tree before, that's an important thing. So making sure that you get the tree fresh, that keep lots of water to it. That's really the big thing we want to emphasize. You know, one thing about Michigan, we are one of the major growers third in the country. And so one thing people can feel good about when they're getting a tree here in Michigan, is that, you know, you're keeping your money local, you're supporting the local economy. And I think that's a good thing to be doing in these times. And that's Burt Craig. He's a professor of forestry and

Russ White 21:30
horticulture at Michigan State University. And again, a good website for anything we've talked about related to real Michigan Christmas trees, MC t a.org. Or like Bert said, Just Google Michigan Christmas trees or Christmas tree Association. It'll pop up so Burt, thanks again for sharing your expertise with us. Hi, good to be here, Russ. Thank you. And I'm Russ white. This is MSU today

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