A Conversation with MSU Spartans Gymnastics Coach Mike Rowe
Download MP3Michigan State University Gymnastics Coach Mike Rowe and All-American Spartan gymnast Sage Kellerman join Russ White on this episode of MSU Today. They say gymnastics should be fun.
Rowe describes his background and what attracted him to taking on the revitalizing of the Spartan Gymnasticsprogram. He describes his coaching philosophy and weighs on the ever-changing world of college athletics. Mike previews the coming season and talks about what he looks for in the future Spartans he recruits.
Kellerman describes the family atmosphere in Spartan Gymnastics and talks about why she decided to become a Spartan.
Conversation Highlights:
Conversation Transcript:
Russ White:
Russ White:
Well on this episode of MSU today, let's get to know MSU Gymnastics Coach Mike Rowe a little bit better, and we'll meet Sage Kellerman, one of the star gymnasts here at MSU. So Mike, great to catch up with you.
Mike Rowe:
Thanks,
Russ White:
Russ. Great to be here. And Sage, good to have you on the show.
Sage Kellerman:
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Mike could just start, give us a little bit of your background and what first attracted you to MSU as a student back in the day?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Interesting. I started out of high school. I went to western Michigan for a year. And I'm going to be honest, this wasn't crazy about that atmosphere or whatever was going on or wasn't going on there, but Michigan State, just basketball had just won the national championship with magic and the cheerleaders had just won their national championship and all this. And I was like, I had friends coming here, I'm thinking I'm going to move across the state, I'm going to transfer. I wasn't doing anything with my major, was kind of interested in the landscape architecture puts around with that for a little bit. But the main thing that attracted me was just the environment, the huge big 10 collegiate feel and the athleticism and football obviously. I tried out for cheer my first season here, contemplated walking onto the men's team, but the cheer team needed Tumblrs in that I could do.
So was fortunate enough to do that. And yeah, the rest was history with that. Did it for my entire career here. I think I was on the five year program here, but I cheered for four and in 84 we were second at the national championships, which was very cool. And obviously the thrill of it was traveling with the football and the basketball teams. We only cheered for two sports at that point and just traveling and the comradery of, I think there was 20 people on the team and it was so much fun. It kind of consumed me. I probably could have been a better student, I'm not going to lie. We didn't have academic resources like they do now, but did as well as I could, but just had a great time. My sister ended up transferring here from Central Michigan and we were partners for a couple of years, so that was kind of cool. My parents thought it was, yeah, and graduated with a bachelor of landscape architecture and was minoring in musical theater, but ended up buying a one way ticket to the west coast and jumped right into musical theater right away. So
Speaker 1 (02:29):
A little bit then of how the YMSU experience impacted you, prepare you for your professional life.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Interesting. I think the performance aspect of it, because even though I was majoring in landscape architecture and I was still interested in it, didn't know what I was going to do with it at the time, but the cheer and the dance, I was actually taking dance courses on the side at Ace of Dance Studio across the street, across Grand River from campus and kind of got the bug for that. So when I moved up to the west coast, was very fortunate and got some shows right away basically because of my gymnastics, if they were musicals, my extracurricular activities at MSU are what prepared me for the rest of my life kind of thing. It wasn't really academia, but yeah, it just, one thing led to another and I was very fortunate to write a wave of show after show after show through networking choreographers, directors, people I had worked with before, didn't have to audition a lot, so that was gymnastics and tumbling was starting to become a big kind of revolution and the musical theater aspect and timing was everything. I was in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, Sage Kellerman, tell us a little bit about what attracted you to MSU and a little bit of your background.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
My family has always been Spartan fans, so that was obviously something that I've always kind of wanted to go to Michigan State. I thought that I wasn't going to end up going to college because I did quit gymnastics my sophomore year of high school. And that's your big recruiting year. And so I lost a lot of time there. I was talking to Michigan State before and then I quit. So then obviously I wasn't talking to them anymore, but I reached back out once I came back and yeah, I went on a visit here and just the coaches, I think they do a very good job of recruiting for personality. And so something that drew me to the team was just our atmosphere, the team atmosphere. Everybody has a very specific personality and we're all very unique, but we all mesh very well together and so we're all very close. And so that was the main thing that drew me here.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And Mike, were you always interested in coaching? Was that sort of gnawing at you or did that develop later?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, they see if you can't do it, coach,
And there came a time, I think I was 36, I was living in New York and contemplating, I had just got a contract to do a Miss Saigon in Hamburg, Germany, and my body was trashed. I had three herniated discs, I had divulge fracture of my hamstring off my pelvic bone. And when you don't dance, you don't get paid. So it was a hard decision and it's still, I am very involved with the musical theater community and a lot of my friends travel on tours and stuff and I go out to see 'em and it's just like eating on my heart, but I just know my body won't let me do that anymore. So I did choreography for a while when I was at the University of Pittsburgh before I came to Michigan State, I choreographed their floor routines and obviously coached bars as an assistant coach there for nine years.
Eventually when the position opened up as an assistant coach here at Michigan State and I took a bite, I knew the head coach at the time and would I'd be a candidate and she said, of course. And I thought it might be a good time to get back and reconnect with my family who I had been away from for 12 years. And that once again, right place at the right time ended up coming back here 36, so now over 40 ish. And the body wasn't cooperating very well with the choreography anymore. So it was coaching, I was still coaching, always coaching gymnastics at one point or another I think. Yeah, since the mid seventies. So the position opened up here and I was the recruiting coordinator and a first assistant and the rest is kind of history. It's full circle in an odd way, but like I said, I think I have good timing and in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And how would you describe your coaching philosophy and the way you create that family atmosphere? Sage was talking about,
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Interesting you asked that because I did my master's and my master's kind of thesis was on the importance of the, not necessarily the mental health, but it played a huge aspect of it. But keeping the student athlete happy and well-rounded and being resourceful for them and that if you could get them with the right mindset, the right peace of mind, the right focus, the comfort, all of those core values which our program is based a lot on, they're going to be fine. It's not their athleticism that determines that. It's everything that's affecting them around internally or in their mind. And so we do our best to keep them happy and having fun. When they first started this sport at 3, 4, 5 years old, little girls flipping across the couch in the living room and all that thing, they were having fun. And gymnastics is a very relentless sport that beats up your body and it's a lot of repetition and numbers and can be monotonous and sometimes not fun. You come back to college and we're going to try our hardest to make it fun again. And I think with the environment that we have in the gym and the closeness of the team, the bond that we have, they be their true authentic selves and just let, they're crazy. We love them for being crazy. Each one of them brings something unique to the program and we applaud them for that and we celebrate that.
It's not all just fun and games, but gymnastics is now fun again because of who they're around and who they're with and who they bond with. That's kind of like the philosophy of it all. My staff is very, we help each other, we cross coach. We don't have dig our feet in and say, feel like we know it all. One of the things I've always said is that if you reach a point where you feel like you know it all, you're done, especially in this changing world and as crazy as that is. But our three hours a day that we get five days a week to spend with them is probably the best time that we'll ever have. They look forward to it, we look forward to it, we have a good time, but we know when to be serious and get down to business and do what we've set our program goals or milestones for the year.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And Sage, talk a little bit about being on the team and what's that like to be a big 10 athlete with all the demands and how do you balance it all?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, it's definitely a big role. I coming here as a freshman, I think that's, the first year is super stressful. It's a big change. I mean, you're coming from club and college gymnastics is way more team, more of a team aspect compared to club. Club is very individualized. And so that's interesting to integrate yourself into doing gymnastics for a team, not just for yourself. And so in that you grow a lot in being selfless and looking outside of yourself and turning to other people for help. And so also juggling the school aspect. I know some of us are in nursing, some of us are in teaching, so a lot of us have to put a lot of hours in the classroom or in clinical and just obviously go to class. But yeah, I feel like school takes up a lot of our time too. So just learning time management and to juggle that is definitely a big task. But I feel like now I'm a senior, so now I kind of figured it out and yeah, it's super enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
That's so cool. And Mike, talk a little bit about you took over the program in some dark times and just how did you go about embracing that challenge and you've taken the program to new heights?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, first of all, I feel blessed that Nicole and I got the opportunity and were given the opportunity to take it over. I had always wanted to have my own program and at the time we weren't sure if there was going to be a program. We were just interim coaches and let's see how this pans out kind of thing. There wasn't a lot of what's next because a lot was going on, but I think that in itself was a big motivator. And then to get slapped back to back with COVID was a motivator for we got to get a stick out of it and we've got to make this fun. We've got to have fun. We can't be miserable. And with all due respect to the survivors, let them grieve and let them survive and no one's going to tell anybody how long they have to do that in.
And there was a lot of different circumstances where people chose one direction over another and we had to let that happen. So there was a couple years of just coping with the circumstances day to day on a day-to-day basis. And when we started to see a light at the end of the tunnel and things started evolving in the right direction, and then COVID hit and we were right back to square one because we lost an entire season. But during that COVID, I think COVID, yeah, taught us a lot of lessons about health and how to take care of ourselves and everything like that. And it was devastating, but us losing our season, we didn't stop training. We had them here still that we could train in the safest environment that we could, and we did a lot of soul searching on how to get to that place of whether it's serenity or some sort of normalcy where we can feel like we can make this sport fun again.
It wasn't hard hitting training and everything like that every day. It was getting to know each other, getting to know each other's backgrounds, really getting to know each other and their families, where they came from and what they aspire to be when they leave Michigan State and all that. And I think taking that time that we had, which we had a lot of, because there was nobody on campus except student athletes, we did get to know each other a lot and it was nice to bond like that and that family environment that everybody talks about, we became and it was like we really don't have to talk about it because we are. And it's been really nice how year after year since probably 21, we lose so many seniors. We don't lose them, but they move on to bigger and better things or other things, and we get a group of newbies coming in that just jump right on board. And I think they feel comfortable in that. They feel very, I think their parents feel like they can trust that they're dropping their daughters off in a program that's going to take care of them and every way. And we have just so many amazing resources that if we can't help them as coaches, we have the resources to know someone who can or can find it for them and they figure that out rather quickly. And that just sets 'em up for success both academically and the competitive arena.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well, let me ask you both about this constantly changing world of college athletics. We hear NIL and the portal, and just first from a coaching perspective, Mike, where's it going and how are you grappling with it as it changes literally by the day?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, there's nothing we can do about it. I have mixed emotions on it because I do believe that student athletes or whatever deserve the opportunity to receive extra benefits, whether it's through NIL or through revenue sharing or whatever. Every school handles it differently. I think in my opinion, there's more cons than pros because there's not a lot of, whether they're big name athletes that are getting recognition for their achievements. And with that said, you have certain student athletes that are really being acknowledged and really being utilized all that when you have a majority of them that aren't. So that can create just a sense of uneasiness or here we're trying to build a family now it's tearing it apart. It is definitely not a level playing field anymore because some schools have more money than others. I think I understand it, I agree with parts of it.
I think it could have been regulated or could be still regulated because it's still in a process of forever changing. And we really don't know from one day to the next how it's going to end. And I hope in the future it doesn't have a adverse effect on Olympic sports because they're not the revenue producing sports that all the colleges are making the big bucks up so they can pay these student athletes. And I hope it's not to the demise of Olympic sports here in the near future because there's a lot of kids out there that aspire to be collegiate softball players, baseball players, golf, tennis, so we can swimming and diving, gymnastics. I think gymnastics is pretty safe right now because we are growing, which is great in attendance and popularity and all that kind of stuff. It's the number one watch sport in the summer Olympics always. And we've, it's collegiate. NCAA gymnastics now is huge and getting a lot more television exposure. And so we're growing while some other sports may not be as much. And so I'm concerned, I'm concerned for everybody's wellbeing in the future and in this kind, hectic time, what's going on all over the world, not just in the ncaa, but it's a rough time to predict anything in the near future or down the road so we can just keep doing what we can to with what we got.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Right. If Sage, what about your thoughts from a student athlete perspective on this changing world?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah, obviously I'm on my way out, but NIL is pretty frustrating. I mean, it's interesting. It's hard not to compare, but our gymnastics program is very successful and we made it to nationals this year, which not a lot of teams here can say that they have. And so it's just hard to see other teams here getting more money and more opportunities than us, even though we had a very successful season. But I mean, that's just the reality. And as far as the whole pay to play thing too, I think that's very interesting. I have kind of mixed emotions about that. I personally signed a four year and now people are signing one year and having to resign every year. So I think that's a way that they can prove themselves, but also something that can hang over their heads and something that they can kind of dwell on. So yeah,
Speaker 1 (17:38):
We will just keep on keeping on, I guess. Yeah. Mike, you've sort of been talking about this throughout, but when you recruit somebody like Sage, what are you looking for in your Spartan student athletes?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Obviously talent and success and consistency in their performance and that kind of stuff. We've really raised the bar, and I think we raised the bar even more each year depending on who's moving on as seniors graduating or whatever, and what shoes we've got to fill, if injuries have had any effect on our lineups or the strength of our lineups because we ultimately are always looking for consistency, good talent, good scoring talent, and being consistent with that, keeping depth in our lineups so we can move people in and out if they need to rest, because 13 weeks in a row is a really tough season and we have a long preseason. So when it comes down to it, the gymnastics, the technical aspect of it and the skill aspect of it is at a higher level, four and five star recruits that have been consistent and that don't have a lot of preexisting conditions with injuries that may just keep coming back chronically, but it's more about character.
We have four weekends of five official visits each weekend coming up. We've had one under belt, we have one this weekend, and we are looking for character traits, how they interact with their parents, how they interact with our, it's like get to know them. This is about them. They want to feel important and special, and I'm meaning realistically, not superficially. Okay. Because that's kind of the premise of our program is peel back the layers and let us get to know you, your true authentic self. I've said it numerous times and I think that breaks the ice from the minute they step on campus here. They know they're going to have a fun weekend. The girls all excited for them to be here. They might even know each other from the past competitive experiences. So it's all about having them a good time, but definitely showing them that the resources that we have are second to none.
Our support staff is just as much a part of our family because Destiny keeps them altogether and keeps them healthy for this time. And Martinez is making sure their nutrition is in balance and all that kind of stuff. And Hannah is academically keeping them on track and not holding their hand, but just being there for anything that they may not need and providing tutors for them. And it's just, there's Katie up in the weight room, our strength coach. She's making sure that they're being more powerful, more explosive, a quick twitch and keeping that because they're all different and that's what, they are all unique. So all of our support staff has to deal with a bunch of 20 unique personalities and isms that range from one side of the spectrum to the next. So I think the recruits, we shove a lot at a mother here.
We wanted them to see everything, and it's impossible with a school this size and then having a good time, obviously go to a football game and tailgate. And just within that time, it's all about getting to know them and getting to know them and what they're looking for, what they're reaching for, who we're competing with in competition with on some of their other visits, just to get an idea of what their mindset is because sometimes you could see a pattern in who they're looking at and sometimes it's way off chart and you'll be like, okay, but those are good lead up questions to why this school? How do you compare the two? We learn from these recruiting weekends and it's really, like I said, we're trying to see if they'll be a good fit for our family when they do come in two years. It's not going to happen in two years, but it is fun. It's fun. It's a lot of work. It's a lot more for the student athletes because they host and the team is here, so they're on trying to be on all the time, but it's a good time.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Let me ask you both one last question if it has. How has the sport of gymnastics changed and evolved over the time you've been in it and maybe where do you see it going?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It's changed a lot and for obviously the obvious reason, SafeSport has come in and changed the dynamics of how coaches work and the do's and don'ts and old school is no more. I mean, it's not one of those, what do I say? You do as you're told and don't speak. You do this, this, this, this, and then you go or there's a punishment or consequence. There's none of that anymore. You have to be all on board as a student athlete to want to continue to be motivated, passionate about your sport, helping contribute to the fun aspect of it. At Michigan State, we as a staff make it a cooperative, you know what I'm saying? We have a relationship with each student athlete on our events that we're getting to this point. Whether it's getting to nationals or you want to be an All American on vault or this one, what are your goals?
What are that you would like to achieve? What would you like to get out of this? Obviously we hope they're all set very high because we want to help them achieve the utmost whatever they can do, whatever they can get out of this. I always say the sky's the limit, but it's a partnership between the coaches and the student athletes. And it's different for each person because they all have different ideals. Some of 'em want to jump right into the workforce or grad school when they get out. Some of them want, I mean, I had one that's been doing Cirque de Soleil for 12 years since I left Pitt and just she's actually leaving another show right now and going back to Vegas to probably join up with her husband and another one, but it's just she couldn't get gymnastics out of her system. So there's those, but you have to learn to find out what really makes these kids tick and help them, help them with it, because there are a lot of decisions to make, but a lot of great choices and a lot of great things in life that you can grasp these opportunities.
And as a student athlete, you have a platform, first of all that you've established by being here for four years. You have a really strong, powerful voice, especially for women and women's sports, which are increasingly popular. And these guys come out of here really with I think, a good solid foundation of moving on in life with whatever they choose to do. Some of them don't know still, it's just feel it out and see, and we got to be there for them to help think about other things. So that's actually part of the fun of it too, the uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Right. Sage, from your viewpoint, how have you seen gymnastics evolve?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me was the shift from club to college. So club gymnastics, typically a lot of environments are toxic and just pre-safe sport. So making that shift to college was just a completely different, college is just a completely different ball game. Gymnastics is fun again, and that was a reason why I quit in club. I just didn't have any feelings towards the sport it felt like because it was just like a robot almost. So coming to college just kind of shifted my perspective on the coaches are willing to work with you and they work alongside you, not against you. So that was one of the biggest things too that drew me here. The whole team aspect too is a big thing that we get to work together as a team, not just individually. I'm trying to go to college, but now I'm at college and all my teammates are around me and they're helping me along with my coaches. And so yeah, the whole just working together is such a big thing. And obviously now gymnastics has grown so much since I was little, and so a lot more people are asking about it. A lot more people are saying, I'm coming to your meets a lot more people are like, oh my gosh, you're on the gymnastics team, that type of thing. And so yeah, gymnastics has just grown a ton since I was younger, and so yeah, that's super cool to see.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Well, we're really excited about our 2026 season coming up. We lost a chunk of talent in our seniors graduating this past year, but we placed them with a chunk of great kids coming up too. So we have six freshmen and two transfer students, one from University of Kentucky and one from University of Georgia. We have a Romanian Olympian on our team this year who's actually just us coming back to us on Saturday. So once again, MSU gymnastics is going to be strong and confident. We just keep pushing that bar and just seeing what we can do with it. I guess it's part of our family environment. Our family atmosphere spreads into our competitive venues when we're going against a highly ranked team or whatever, instead of being stressed out about it and worried about scores and all that kind of stuff. We always say, our thing is it's all about us and we try to recreate our practice arena in a competitive arena, and we don't care who's on the floor with us.
We don't care who's in the building, we don't care what they're scoring. It's all about us and improving one little 10th at a time or half a 10th at a time every week, and trying to be consistent across throughout the season so we can be seated high in the postseason. That philosophy hasn't changed. We're going to continue to do that this year and really hope these newbies that are coming in, which is almost half of our team, not that we've lost a lot of routines, we lost a lot of bodies, but we're gaining a lot of routines, which is going to help our depth. We'll have harder choices to make when it comes to lineups every week. And that's probably the strategy behind that is still the billion dollar answer I wish I had. But we're working on it trying to learn it because you just, Hey, these kids all work really, really, really, really hard.
No one doesn't work hard, so there should be a payoff for that. And it's not always making a lineup. Sometimes it's just being able to travel with a team or whatever. So we're obviously going to put the best six on each event plus an exhibition or two. And it is tough because we beat our heads against the wall. Do we take this chance? Who is more consistent? We go back to the consistency. We don't want to change that abruptly bitten us before. So it's just you still have it in your heart that you want to give these kids a chance all the time. So I guess that's just life. You have to, I take the good with the bad and just keep working. You'll break through. You'll have a breakthrough.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Spartans will Sage. Final thoughts?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, I mean, I think our team just does a very good job of staying hungry, and so we're just putting the work in right now behind the scenes so we can achieve our goals this year.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Well, that's Sage Kellerman student athlete on the MSU gymnastics team. And Mike Rowe, the coach has joined us. Appreciate the conversation and much more online. Of course, MSU spartans.com. We'll get you more information. And I'm Russ White. This is MSU today.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Find rate and subscribe to MSU today with Russ White on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows. And please feel free to share this episode if you're so inclined.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Thank you for listening to MSUToday.
Creators and Guests
Host
Russ White
I host and produce MSU Today for News/Talk 760 @wjrradio and @MichiganStateU's @NPR affiliate @WKAR News/Talk 102.3 FM and AM 870.
